Warez

[defone]

Hello everyone

There is growing warezscene in mobile world which concerns me as a developer.

There is plenty _small_ vendors which tries to develope applications and games for your use so you can get more advantage from your device. You maybe know that the markets for mobile applications are still very small and small firms has large problems to get paid from their work. We still rely heavily to our investors to get more money to invent something new.

I found from here and few other forums _lots_ of games for Series 40 and other Nokia devices.
(and yes, there was applications which are developed by my company or my friends companies). They were mostly Java based applications and games which do not cost much if you buy them _easily_ from distributors.

So Please, pay if you use.

Hopefully I can start conversation about this issue. I'am very intrested to get feedback from you and especially from moderators.

[Kong Zi]

Every body wants some thing for nothing, thats life i'm afraid.

I always buy the things I use, and so will the people who want to use them for anything of real importance.

:rolleyes:

[chunkhead]

Sadly it's hard to convince people of this fact! NokiaFREE definately does not support warez or piracy! We simply share with others! The Forum is about to be re-organized and I have been selected as one of the new moderators! This is one issue that will be addressed!;)

[Thanh]

Hello :)
As i had (and will have again) a games download section in my website, it would be interesting for me to find out if games are now freeware, demo versions or warez??
There are plenty websites which offer games for free downloading. Others yet you have to be a member and pay for being member in order to download. Yet others charge per download. Club Nokia also charges per download, and so do all of the Network operators here in Thailand (except GSM 1800 which doesn't offer any downloads!).
The problem that we face (at least i did) was that you pay for a download ahead of d/ling (Club Nokia at that time, using those "credits") and found after d/l that the game was crap, so... money wasted, and no way of refund. When it's a CD or whatever, good chance that you can at least get another one, but not when downloading.
Now, how do people like me, who only wish to share stuff with others, know wether some game is a freeware, or a pirated copy? I have so far not come across a namely "hacked" java game or application. Also Nokia offers (for FREE!) some games or apps only for certain phones (excample the game "Red&Blue, which was ONLY for 7250!) and yet by finding it on the net and so getting it into a 6610 (which i did), is this an act of piracy? Heck, it's free for some users..??? How about later on sharing that very game with others..?
I am very confused about this, and it is (beside the bandwidth issue) a reason why i suspended game downloading on my website.
Dear defone, please submitt me a list of games from your company or friend's companies (by e-mail, please, the adress is in my profile) that i can make sure after re-launching of my games download, that i don't have warez there. I say on my website that i don't wish to engage in piracy...... and i don't want to do it accidentally by not knowing of it!
Thanks in advance....
your Thanh

[defone]

Your download site bandwith was exceeded so I'll check that later. There is basic rule where you can determine is the application commercial or free. If developer is company (there is plenty of game developers or publishers e.g. Nokia, Gameloft, Sumea, Mr. Goodliving, THQ inc, Macrospace etc.) it almost for sure is commercial and/or it's distribution is prohibited without permission.

I suggest that you mail to the developer if you are not sure is it commercial or free. You can find the developer's name from .jad file's property tag "MIDlet-Vendor".

Remember, if e.g. in download site has game which is free. Somebody has already paid it for you. So that is the reason why you should not distribute applications in your own site without permission.

You are right about that there is lots of crap in the markets, that's suck I know. But like in PC world there is possible to read game reviews and play demo versions before you make your buying decision.

Hopefully this helps!

[Thanh]

Hello again :)
Thanks for the reply! Now, as i said, at the moment i do NOT have games for downloading at my site, i have it suspended for quite a while already as the site is already quite popular just because of the free wallpapers (thank god... they can't be pirated as i did most of 'em myself!).
I will do what you suggested, i can find out the game's developers via the jad's and try to get theur e-mail ad's or websites, and ask their permit for distributing the games.
But there's another issue.... to get LEGAL games is for some people simply impossible! I am surely not alone here, but i give you the example in my own case:
I was on a website, read a review of a commercial game, downloaded the trial version and am happy with it. (In fact, wasn't a game but the application "WebViewer", but that's the same with games). Then i wish to get the "real thing". And now... i'm stuck. Payment. No problem with 19.90 us$ (in the moment problem, yes, but then not... doesn't matter). Pay via... CREDIT CARD F***ING ONLY!!! And i am NOT in the USA where every newborn get's a credit card. I am in Thailand, and i am a foreigner here (german native). No credit card, and no chance to get one. Ok, e-mail to the developer. Reply: "Sorry, we only accept credit cards". And... end of story, a full no-go. Googling the web for DAYS. Found a website that also distributes the thing, e-mail... yes, accept wire transfer or TT. 19.90 us$. Run to the bank: Sorry, overseas TT's only via business accounts. TIT (this Is Thailand!). Damn. Last chance... western Union. "Sure, no problem. We need the name of the prson who picks up the money, his passport number, phone number.... DUH!! Several overseas calls....... could be aranged. Final step: Sending us$ 19.90, that is 8350 Baht. The fee for the transfer will be 4500............ (!!!!!). Plus already wasted around 1000 for phone calls. NO GO GODDAMMIT.
Andf this was no bull but really happened to me. The website accepted TT which no Bank here does when you don't have a business account. Western Union charges ridiculous fees and requests a personal money pickup on the other side, and for verification they need a lot of personal details from the receiver. i once ended up paying more than 10.000 Baht to get a bill from germany paid, which was initially 1.250 Baht!!
Now, please, you developers whom some of us REALLY wish to support, not at last to get the service and eventual bugfixes/updates...... please make your stuff available for people outside the US, accept cash mail in or cheques or whatever but don't ride on the bloody credit card wave only... PLEASE, one guy from bangkok begs you! There were good old times in germany where you could send a registered leter to a developing company with the required amount in cash inside, and a few days later you received a registered envelope (you had to sign for receiption!) with a CD or even a floppy disk.......... And even big companies like Symantec did it! I got my very first Norton Anti Virus and Personal Firewall that way......... Can't we revert to that system, which is fool proof?
Please.....
kind regards....
Thanh

[gymosphere]

To me it is like this:

Fact:
u will never fully protect any software, not even Microsoft! Naza got hacked in too.

Solution:
If we can afford, we will buy.
If we wanna buy, we need convenient ways to do so.
If we have convenient ways to do so, we hope for aftersales service.

but a lot out there could not afford. A small game like this costs RM 80.00 in Malaysia. we can buy 10 computer games with RM80.00. further, a 128 memory card costs only RM 195, and do u think we will buy the game? of cos we want free game!

Obviously, it is too expensive. If all can afford, no one will take the trouble to search for free game. it isnt an easy job. and it requires knowledge to make things free.


Economically, if the price is cheaper then the trouble we need to find free apps, of cos we will directly buy. That;s the logic way of thinking. and don try to make the not-logic to logic...like enforcing laws or doing more security, it will just increase the cost of consumer and the producer.


Thanks!

[defone]

Thanh,

I see that you have tried:) Yes I understand that some countries and operators do not offer easily downloadable applications which are paid via SMS or WAP payments like in here europe. You should suggest t your operator that there is big opportunity to get more money if they offer applications and games in their wap site. There is also web sites which offers applications via SMS payment. It's very convient way to buy the application and it's costs about 5euros in most cases. If there is no any distributors in thailand, i suggest that you start one:)

Best Regards

[gymosphere]

yes, support the developers! but developers out there, don make your developments so expensive, each apps costs 10% of the phone price, how many apps u think we can afford? if u were to sell each app download only USD1.00-2.00, then no one will take the trouble to crack n to find crack.

logic?

hey...any supporters of my view?

[pico]

gymosphere has the correct idea, and that goes for any area of software development.

btw; how you expect someone to PAY for your game/app, when they can easilly get it for FREE?
no one, would do that..
unless you offer something else. maybe updates to buyers only, good support, discount on future programs?
can you better protect the soft? i dunno..

[gymosphere]

thanks pico!

[defone]

Originally posted by pico

btw; how you expect someone to PAY for your game/app, when they can easilly get it for FREE?
no one, would do that..
unless you offer something else. maybe updates to buyers only, good support, discount on future programs?
can you better protect the soft? i dunno..

Yes I know, but will you take a car from the street if it's unlocked? I don't think so, there is huge possibility that you get caught. I know that if you download from warez site commercial game for free, there is almost zero possibility to get caught. That is understandable. It's not right thing to do anyway.

If you spread the games and send them e.g to boards or you have waresite , then you have very big chance to get nailed about that (or board admins if they don't remove commercial applications). Company's will fight back, so you should think is it worth it to post the game to the board or your site.

There is coming DRM (Digital Rights Management) protections on the devices. First coming implementation is forward lock which prevents user to copy application from the phone to PC. Of course, it's breakable (everything is) but it's need more skills than now.

And what you writed about offering customer care services, that's right. But customer care costs and do you know who pays it? The customer of course. That means more expensive games and applications for devices like in PC world now.

Best Regards,
defone