NOKIA Battery question

[chavo]

ebay currently has a few traders offering 1200mha batteries which are supposed to "replace" genuine BLB-2s. Now, clearly, these are not genuine Nokia Fayre... (they are branded AIKON... very drole - NOKIA backwards)...

...Questions:


Any thoughts on NON OEM batteries
Any impacts (negative on phone?) of using 1200mha as opposed to 750mha
Technical comments welcome.

see:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3329987747&category=42406

for standard battery

and

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3329875933&category=42406

for hi-cap battery....

[cjard]

guy gets good ratings, but google never heard of AIKON.. hmm

[danwood76]

I read on one post last week that someone was using an un-official nokia battery for a while, this battery started to wear out so they decided to use an official one again.
The problem they found was that the new official nokia battery wouyld not work in that phone even though the un-official one would!

I would stick to using official nokia parts as if anything goes wrong then you have a big firm to have a go at rather than 'AKION'!!

[bobl]

If this post makes no sense, please say so :)


I would stick to using official nokia parts as if anything goes wrong then you have a big firm to have a go at rather than 'AKION'!!

Wise words, I can't see any potential benefit in using a battery with higher current.

P=I^2R, with a higher current, this would mean more power flows through the system, at a lower voltage (Due to V=IR)

(Elementary electronics probably doesn't mean much though)

If you have a lower voltage, despite the fact that it is at a higher current, I feel that you may come across low voltage across SIM problems etc.

Plus using non-Nokia parts, doesn't that invalidate your warranty?

Cheers

Bob

[green gerbil]

batteries with more current last longer. you have to have more cells/bigger battery to produce that current at the same voltage. there should be NO difference between a nokia and an aftermarket battery except in some cases quality. The worst thing that would probably happen from an aftermarket battery is that it would break sooner or not work very well. nokia wants you to buy its batteries, hence they say do not use aftermarkets or it will void your warranty, even though they cannot tell.

[chavo]

Fascinating opinions seems to vary quite a lot.
So, if this 1200mah battery can "hold it's current" for longer, I suppose it can... release it's current over a longer period of time?


Maybe we need a battery expert :)

The other thing, is that the geniune Nokia BLB2 costs a vast amount of money, and fakes (being sold AS Nokias are everywhere....)

[bobl]

So, if this 1200mah battery can "hold it's current" for longer

Actually I think the battery is holding it's "power" for longer. This is because it is transmitting the same power at a higher current so a lower voltage. I.e. it will last longer...(I believe anyway)

Cheers

Bob

[DaveGSM82]

I bought a 950mAh battery for my 8210 which had power consumption problems (would only last a day) and it did improve things. BUT be carefull, if you buy a cheap (or not) aftermarket you must make sure they havent chopped out imprtant things like the temperature sensor to make room for the extra cell size.

I found it didnt have one from netmonitor, the Btemp never changed from 22deg even though you could feel the battery was getting warm (never boiled but got warm).

Look at the BLD-3 (from my 7250). I think thats 950mAh and its SMALLER than the BLB-2, So if nokia could make a battery 1.5 x its size you'd probably have a 1.2Ah battery, I think its possible.

[chavo]

Well, I bought one... now let's wait and see how she performs.
I'll let you all know of course :)

chavo

[wwanthony]

Did the battery perform better then original Nokia?

I'm interested in getting one of those 1250mah ones in hope of battery lasting longer as my blue leds seem to kill my battery.

[shmike]

Just a note to clarify something:

The measure of "mAh" (milli-ampere hours) is an indication of how long the battery is going to last.

The ammount of current that it supllies to the phone circuit would be the same as an original Nokia battery IF the voltage output of the battery is the same, as the phone circuit (ie: the load) does not change :)

[DaveGSM82]

its not a direct measure of how long the battery will last, its like having a jug and a bigger jug. fill em both with water and then drill the same size hole in both, you will find that the bigger jug releases water for longer (obviously). this is just a basic analogy, i'm sure theres better ones.

Dave

[shmike]

Yup, DaveGSM82 you're right. So yeah as I said before, you can only go by it to give you an indication of how it may perform.

[edph]

Actually,

the unit maH (milliAmphere hour) is a measure of the amount of current to fully charge a battery in one hour. i.e. 1250 mAH means that if you charge the battery with 1250 mA continously it would take 1 hour to fully charge it. if you charge it with 625 mA it would take two hours... and so on....


When discharging it (using it) the above will still apply in reverse. (i.e. if your phone consumes 625 mA you can only use it for two hours continous) therefore the bigger the number is in mAH the longer the battery will last...(note: of course some of the power will dissipate as heat)


All batteries are basically the same, the main difference is in the materials used... ie Li, NiCd etc... each type has its own advantage and disadvantages...

for more info visit this page (http://www.cell-phone-batteries-nokia-cellular-battery-deal.com/cellular-battery-types.html)
_______
My homepage (http://www.edph.f2o.org)

[shmike]

Thanks for the clarification, edph

[Thanh]

Hello :)
@danwood76
I am the one with the problem (Phone worked with aftermarket batt, wouldn't work with a new original anymore) The problem was that the aftermarket battery was 0.5 mm's "longer" than the original blb-2. Of course it fit in, because a gentle press on it made it "fit" and then it hasn't been moved for a year or so..... but when it eventually wore, i had to replace it with an original, hence 0.5 mm "too short" one, and that kept producing the strange errors encountered. Finally a small piece of cardboard squeezed between the battery's lower end and the phone housing "fixed" it :)

About those "high cap" batteries in general, i think for myself that the phone's charging circuit/controller is "tuned" to the original capacity battery. So if i put a 19.000 mAh battery in a 8250, it's gonna charge roughly untill there are 750 mAh in the battery and then display "battery full". After this, it goes to maintenance charge (if the phone is off at that time!) and only if you keep it charging for another three weeks in maintenance, it will eventually reach the full capacity.
My own experience (BLB-3 950 mAh ORIGINAL NOKIA! in a 6510 which originally uses a 750 mAh BLB-2) brought a two-day-longer standby time, but only if i charged the phone whilst turned off over night. When i charged it "on the go", meaning by keeping it turned on, the standby time was not any better than with the original BLB-2.
Be aware of possible "cheaters" in the battery market, too. In my 5130, after my homebuild battery (BLB-3 cell in original case) died due to overheating (no temp sensor... should have put it in, too) i bought a surprisingly cheap "Li-Ion 950 mAh" battery for that phone. This one allows even to turn the vibrator on, but it won't vibrate (because there's no damn vibrator in it!) and netmonitor showed me quickly that it was a 650 mAh NiMH battery..... But still, it was MUCH cheaper than in a Nokia shop, even this one came in a "official" Nokia package inclusive hologram sticker. TIT (this is Thailand).
Also aftermarket batteries (mostly way cheaper) are often heavier than the regular ones. That is because they are in fact NOT Li-Ion as stated on the case, but NiMH. The price difference got to come from somewhere.
What confuses ME now is, why are there different ORIGINAL batteries..? Such as (Nokia prospecus!) "enhanced Li-Ion 800 mAh BLB-2" where also "750 mAh" and (original in 8250) "650 mAh" BLB-2's are available??? On the outer casing it does not state the mAh rate, but netmonitor in a 8250 shows that there are really 650 and 750 ones around (never got hold of a 800 one).
Same BLB-3 which is advertised (Nokia USA, for 8260) as "950 mAh", Nokia Thailand (for 8855) "1000 mAh" and ALSO "enhanced 890 mAh" for some phone (also in Thailand).
Now, DaveGSM82 pointed out that his BLD-3 (7250) got 950 mAh... i use the same type in my 6610, advertised with "720 mAh". So what? I have a battery problem and need a new one anyway, but i want original. I have no netmonitor in this 6610, how can i find out the capacity when i test batteries in a shop? They got different article numbers, that i know. Someone got a GENUINE 950 mAh BLD-3 and could give me that code..? I would be glad :)
Best regards from Bangkok, in the kingdom of software piracy and fake brandname products...........
your Thanh

[edph]

Originally posted by Thanh
Hello :)
it's gonna charge roughly untill there are 750 mAh in the battery and then display "battery full". After this, it goes to maintenance charge (if the phone is off at that time!) and only if you keep it charging for another three weeks in maintenance, it will eventually reach the full capacity.
You're right, in actual practice battery chargers do work that way... It will recharge the battery upto 80% and then will go on "maintenance charge" or "slow or trickle charge". The reason for that is to prevent overcharging, as that can degrade performance and eventually destroy the battery, take note that the temperature sensors on batteries are there to guard against overcharging aswell, it is because the temperature rises exponentially when the max capacity has been reached. So don't overcharge your batteries, 12 hrs is optimal
(do not charge it for more than 24 hrs!!!)
And also chargers are different depending on the battery type, NiMH requires rapid chargers, and they may perform differently depending on the temperature or other factors...

"The manufacturer's specified talk and stand-by times typically represent "up to" or maximum battery performance under optimal conditions. Depending on these factors (The conditioning of the battery, the type of service-digital or analog, the options selected on the phone, service area signal strength, the accessories used, the typical operating temperature, etc.) , the performance you experience may be more or less than the advertized talk and stand-by times."


_________
My homepage (http://www.edph.f2o.org)

[Thanh]

Hello, and thanks for that reply :)
As i have owned quite a bunch of Nokia phones to date, and sold them mostly without their chargers, so i now have 6 Nokia chargers.
As i know of the charging habbits when using original chargers, i want to ask, why do non-originals perform different? For example, i use one charger which got a nice indicating LED in it. When it charges (battery bars on the phone move) this LED is red. When the phone stops charging ("Battery full" displayed, bars stop moving) the LED is green.
BUT when the phone is OFF and charging "stops" (bars don't move anymore.... 6610 still displays them!) the LED flashes between green and red, with the "red" periods becoming shorter and shorter untill after some 2-3 hours the LED stays "green". I assume that at this point the battery is "really full". Interestingly it does NOT do this when the phone is on.
Also, what are those "quick chargers"..? I got one of those in the car, they have 3 "pins" on the plug which goes into the phone. When charging with this charger, the battery is getting pretty warm (not really hot, but warm... it doesn't do that when using original wallcharger or the one with the LED) and it is "Battery full" much faster than with another charger. This "Quick charger" is also original Nokia and quite old, it was a long time ago included in the sales package of the 3210. It works fine with all Nokias i have had, EVEN THE 5130!
This brings me to my last question. Particular 5130/5110, why do they use different chargers, or, better question, WHAT is the difference?? My 5130 does NOT charge with any but it's original charger and that one in the car. When i use any other, also the LED one, it displays "Not charging" or starts charging for a minute and stops. It's original charger can also charge any other Nokia, inclusive my 6610. I have opened the 5130 charger and another one, there are no difference in them, they look totally identical.
Also (really last one, sorry....) about my 6610, it seems to have a battery problem. First it happened once, but now more and more often, that the battery suddenly drops from 7 bars to 1 and shuts off. Usually removing the battery and re-inserting it solves that, but sometimes not. Knocking the battery (or the phone itself) gently against something also solves it sometimes. It does NOT happen when i use another battery, so it's got to be the battery itself. This battery is roughly 4 months old... can they "die" this quick? To explain, i do NOT have the original charger which comes in the package of a 6610 as i bought it second hand w/o package, charger, accessoires etc. This type of charger (my BF got one with his 7250) also makes the battery warm when charging, however, none of mine chargers does that but they all seem to charge it fine, too. Is it advisable to get one of those somehow "specified" chargers when buying a new battery, to keep it "alive" longer?
Any help on this is highly appreciated..... Thanks in advance.
Best regards....
your Thanh

[edph]

ok,
i don't know much about the battery chargers you have but to answer your questions let see how chargers behave in general...

switching power supplies - the charger is designed based on a switching power supply ( basically this is a power supply with no transformer to lower the voltage to battery levels) it regulates the power needed depending on the load keeping the current constant by switching "on and off" at a very fast rate... ( note that this design has a very wide mains input voltage ie 90V - 230 V i think).

trickle charging - or "maintenance charge" as you call it, as i stated before kicks in when the battery is 80% full, it actually charges the phone intermittently meaning its "on & off" - "on" for a specified time then "off" again, this "on and off" cycle varies depending on the level of charge in the battery i.e. it turns on for a shorter period of time once it is getting close to maximum. There is circuitry in the charger that monitors the voltage of the battery so that trickle charging can commence when it reach that level (80%), If your phone is in use or "on", obviously the voltage level will be low as a load is connected and hence it may not reach that level and the trickle charging may not kick in.

quick(rapid) chargers - this ones charge at a higher current rating (higher mAH rating) due to the high current the battery tends to become warm, much like a wire in which a high current is flowing, it heats up, but it doesn't mean that the battery has reached its maximum, its just that the current is high. "I had NiCd batteries(not nokia battery, regular rechargeable NiCd AA baterries) before which litterly melted due to over charging". Car battery chargers don't use the swithcing power supply obviously because the car battery's voltage is not that high, but it uses some other form of current regulation to charge the batteries.

Conditioning circuitry - Some chargers have this feature incorporated in them, basically it discharges the battery and emptys it prior to charging. This is good as some batteries has the "memory effect" particularly NiCd types... "If the battery is frequently charged without first being fully discharged, or if the battery is often provided with less than a full charge, the batteries power reserve capacity can be temporarily diminished. This temporary capacity loss is commonly referred to as "memory effect."

ok lastly about your 5130/5110 check the mAH, voltage rating or even the polarity of your chargers to see if they match, if so check your batteries if they are the same type, I checked nokia site and both uses the same batterry models, but there are three different type, check if they are the same...

thanks... hope that helps...

_____________
My homepage (http://www.edph.f2o.org)